Welcome back to the Read, dear friends! This week, Nynaeve, Egwene, and Elayne have a sort of side-adventure, which proved difficult to summarize but contains a lot of tidbits of information and foreshadowing that, I can tell, are going to be important later. We meet some more Aiel, including Aviendha, who I have rather a suspicion will end up being an important character, and learn a little bit more about their cultural identity too. We see a bit of a power struggle between Nynaeve and Egwene, as well, and I try to make sense of some casually-dropped tidbits like “the Dragonwall” and someone named “Tigraine,” who Rand apparently looks like? More on that later (I confess I had to go back through the glossaries) but first, let’s get to the recap.
Chapter 37 opens with Egwene standing on the deck of a ship called the Blue Crane, watching the shores of Cairhien slip by. She’s somewhat distracted by the ship’s crewmen, who keep bowing to her as they go about their duties. She’d managed to convince Nynaeve to let her and Elayne try to pass as Aes Sedai, even though Nynaeve had been convinced that they were too young for anyone to believe it. And they had received some startled looks when people saw the Great Serpent rings on their right hands and the youth in their faces, but they were accepted anyway. Both the Captain and crew of the Blue Crane had been obsequious in their desire to serve the Aes Sedai, although they’d also been startled by their request for a single cabin.
Egwene is watching the abandoned, smoking ruins of a Cairhienin village on the shores of the river as the pass, and trying to maintain an appropriately Aes Sedai level of composure at the sight. Privately, though, she wishes for a real Aes Sedai, and one she could trust, that she could look to for guidance in the face of the ruin in Cairhien and her struggle with the stone ring ter’angreal. Despite trying to use the ring a few more times, she’s never been able to learn or see anything useful, besides finding herself in the Heart of the Stone a few more times. Without the ter’angreal she still seemed to see glimpses of Tel’aran’rhiod, though; she saw Rand wielding a sword that blazed like the sun, or standing on a giant stones board as giant hands moved the pieces and seemed to try to crush him. She also saw Perrin with a Falcon and Hawk fighting over him, of Perrin stepping off the edge of a cliff and hoping to learn to fly on his way down. Min springing a steel trap without realizing she’d walked through it. Egwene also saw Mat with dice spinning around him, Mat being followed by a man who was not there, and Mat with a woman who seemed to be an Illuminator. Egwene’s not sure if all these dreams are Dreams or not, but it seems like her talent is growing.
…Men and women breaking out of a cage, then putting on crowns. A woman playing with puppets, and another dream where the strings on puppets led to the hands of larger puppets, and their strings led to still greater puppets, on and on until the last strings vanished into unimaginable heights. Kings dying, queens weeping, battles raging. Whitecloaks ravaging the Two Rivers. She had even dreamed of the Seanchan again. More than once. Those she shut away in a dark corner; she would not let herself think of them. Her mother and father, every night.
At least she’s certain that dreaming of her parents is just homesickness, a longing for security she once knew when she lived at home and had them to guide her. But she knows that they can’t protect her now, and she’ll only see them again when she visits, once she is proper Aes Sedai for real and can travel home as she chooses.
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Elayne joins her on deck and asks how Egwene can ignore the sight of the destruction in Cairhien; Egwene replies that she ignores it because there is nothing she can do about it and because they need to focus on what they are hunting, which is in Tear. Elayne knows this as well, but it can’t stop her from feeling for the Cairhienin, and she doesn’t rise to the bait when Egwene points out that Andor has fought many wars against Cairhien.
Egwene, her mind on Mat and the Amyrlin’s paper and her dreams, suddenly realizes that the man who was not there must be a Gray Man. She exclaims aloud, frightening Elayne, and they discuss Egwene’s revelation and whether the Gray Man has anything to do with Elayne’s letter and charge to deliver it. They are discussing if this revelation might lead to Egwene realizing other meanings in her dreams when the ship lurches suddenly, throwing them to the deck. The captain and crew rush to find out what has happened, and it’s soon announced that they’ve crashed into a sunken ship, probably the work of river brigands.
Nynaeve emerges from below deck and goes to talk to the captain. Upon discovering that they’re well stuck and will need to wait until a second ship comes to help pull them off, Nynaeve decides that they will go ashore on the Cairhienin side and walk two hours to the town Jurene, which is held by the soldiers of Andor and where they can board another ship. She does not think they can afford to wait for another ship to come along; it could be days before the Blue Crane is free. Egwene starts to question this decision, but Elayne quickly interrupts and agrees with Nynaeve’s reasoning. The captain protests, but Nynaeve reminds him that they are far from defenseless, and he agrees to have a boat readied to put them ashore. She goes below to collect her things.
“If one of you says ‘up,’ ” Elayne murmured, “the other says ‘down.’ If you do not stop it, we may not reach Tear.”
“We will reach Tear,” Egwene said. “And sooner once Nynaeve realizes she is not the Wisdom any longer. We are all”—she did not say Accepted; there were too many men hurrying about—“on the same level, now.” Elayne sighed.
They are soon ashore, and Egwene makes sure to take the lead before Nynaeve can. Elayne attempts to start conversation but neither of the Emond’s Fielders are interested. Eventually, Egwene announces that she is determined to defend herself if they encounter brigands; the Amyrlin is not there to stop them now. Nynaeve reminds her that they can drive off brigands the same way they drove off the Whitecloaks before, if they can’t find another way, while Elayne pipes up that she’d rather reach the village without trouble. Just then a figure rises up before them out of the grass.
Egwene and Elayne both scream and embrace saidar, Nynaeve just folds her arms and looks stern. Before them in the grass stands a woman no older than Egwene. Elayne lets go of saidar as she realizes this, but Egwene doesn’t relax as easily.
She did not let go of saidar. Men were sometimes silly enough to think a woman was harmless merely because she was a woman; Egwene had no such illusions. In a corner of her mind she noted that Elayne was no longer surrounded by the glow. The Daughter-Heir must still harbor foolish notions. She was never a Seanchan prisoner.
Egwene realizes, however, that she feels a sort of kinship to this woman, who, with her reddish hair, blue-green eyes, and height looks a lot like Rand. Egwene has heard of the Maidens of the Spear, Aiel woman as deadly as the male warriors, and she’s very curious as to what an Aiel is doing outside the Waste.
The woman introduces herself as Aviendha of the Nine Valleys sept of the Taardad Aiel, and asks if they are the women of this land who are similar to the Wise ones in theirs, the Aes Sedai of the White Tower. Egwene is alarmed at the revelation that there are others around that she cannot see, and so is Elayne, but Nynaeve is very obvious in not looking as she answers that they are women of the White Tower. Aviendha explains that one of her companions is hurt, perhaps dying, and asks if they will help her.
“I will help her if I can,” Nynaeve said slowly. “I cannot make promises, Aviendha. She may die despite anything I can do.”
“Death comes for us all,” the Aiel said. “We can only choose how to face it when it comes. I will take you to her.”
Two other women, as young as Egwene and Elayne, stand up out of hiding places that Egwene could never have dreamed would hide a whole person, and remove black veils from their faces. They pass weapons—knives and spears and a small shield—back to Aviendha, and they lead the way back to their friend, scanning the land warily as they go. Nynaeve walks in front with Aviendha, but the other two Aiel women, Chiad and Bain, begin to talk to Egwene and Elayne, and Egwene struggles to understand cultural differences such as the notion of what it means for a maiden to wed the spear, and the concept of first- and second-sisters. Elayne explains that the term first-sister indicates blood relations through the same mother, while second-sister refers to girls whose mothers were first-sisters. Further complicating matters is the fact that the Aiel have first-sister relationships that can be created not by birth but by “speak[ing] the words before the Wise Ones,” and being bonded as first sisters.
“As is proper for first-sisters who are Maidens, we guard each other’s backs, and neither will let a man come to her without the other. I would not say we do not care for men.” Chiad nodded, with just the hint of a smile. “Have I made the truth clear to you, Egwene?”
“Yes,” Egwene said faintly. She glanced at Elayne and saw the bewilderment in her blue eyes she knew must be in her own. Not Red Ajah. Green, maybe. A cross between Warders and Green Ajah, and I do not understand another thing out of that. “The truth is quite clear to me, now, Bain. Thank you.”
Chaid admits she doesn’t know how two women who are the equivalent of Wise Ones would be able to speak the words, but Elayne promises that it is not necessary, that she and Egwene already watch each other’s backs, prompting surprise from the Aiel that Wise Ones would need to guard against anything; “no one would dare raise a hand to a Wise One.”
Egwene is saved having to answer by their arrival at a copse of trees where Dailin, the injured woman, lies, mostly unconscious and with bandages around her stomach where she took a sword from soldiers who thought the Aiel women were brigands. Nynaeve is annoyed when she realizes that Dailin has been moved; apparently she wanted to die near water. She sets about getting her herbs together and sending the Aiel to the river for fresh water—they’re surprised that an Aes Sedai would use herbs and more than a little wary of the river.
Egwene, wanting to distract them from Nynaeve’s terse attitude, asks about their reaction to the river, and although she’s trying to soothe them, she only unearths more cultural differences as she learns how little water there really is in the Waste. She realizes that she has only made the women more stressed and tense by her questioning, and starts reaching for saidar.
“I would never harm an Aes Sedai,” Aviendha said abruptly. “I would have you know that. Whether Dailin lives or dies, it makes no difference in that. I would never use this”—she lifted one short spear a trifle—“against any woman. And you are Aes Sedai.” Egwene had the sudden feeling that the woman was trying to soothe them.
Elayne says that she knows this, knows that the Aiel never harm women unless they are wedded to the spear, but Bain clarifies that she would teach a lesson to any not-wedded woman who came at her with weapons. As Nynaeve urges Dailin to drink her mixture of herbs, Aviendha continues to clarify that they would not fight Aes Sedai even if they came at them with weapons.
“Not even then, Aes Sedai,” Aviendha told Elayne. She kept her eyes on Dailin and Nynaeve, though. “It is said that once, before the Breaking of the World, we served the Aes Sedai, though no story says how. We failed in that service. Perhaps that is the sin that sent us to the Three-fold Land; I do not know. No one knows what the sin was, except maybe the Wise Ones, or the clan chiefs, and they do not say. It is said if we fail the Aes Sedai again, they will destroy us.”
“Drink it all,” Nynaeve muttered. “Swords! Swords and muscles and no brains!”
“We are not going to destroy you,” Elayne said firmly, and Aviendha nodded.
“As you say, Aes Sedai. But the old stories are all clear on one point. We must never fight Aes Sedai. If you bring your lightnings and your balefire against me, I will dance with them, but I will not harm you.”
As Egwene questions Aviendha as to what balefire is (neither of them know), Nynaeve starts off on a rant about stabbing and tearing up bodies, alarming the Aiel, but Egwene and Elayne can see what Nynaeve is really doing, working herself up so that she can channel. They both try to watch what Nynaeve does as Dailin jerks upward with a cry and then falls back again.
When Nynaeve wipes the blood from Dailin’s stomach, there is no mark on the healthy skin there, although it’s new and paler than the rest of her. Nynaeve instructs the Aiel to finish cleaning her up and to have food ready for Dailin when she wakes. Aviendha tells Nynaeve that she owes the Aes Sedai a blood-debt for healing her mother’s sister’s daughter, but Nynaeve brushes her off, asking instead about ships at Jurene.
In discussing ships, Egwene learns that the Aiel, when they couldn’t find bridges, figured out how to make “little ships” by lashing logs together, and she’s more than a little impressed by their bravery in facing something they fear so much. But a voice inside her reminds her that she is doing much the same, facing the Black Ajah, although she feels like she has less of a choice than the Aiel did. This prompts her to ask why the Aiel came all this way, and learns that they seek He Who Comes With the Dawn. She also learns that this man is said to have been born to Far Dareis Mai, a Maiden of the Spear, and given up, as is required of a Maiden who doesn’t want to give up the Spear instead. The Wise Ones have told the Aiel that he is to be found in this land beyond the Dragonwall, and ask careful questions as to what three Aes Sedai are doing in this land. Nynaeve answers obliquely, saying they are going to Tear to hunt Darkfriends—Shadowrunners, the Aiel call them—and a sideways mention of the Heart of the Stone gets the Aiel’s attention. She briskly gets Elayne and Egwene moving after that, and they are soon on their way again.
As they walk, Egwene learns from Elayne that the Aiel don’t regard the Aiel War as a war so much as they think of it as a headsman or thief-taker doing his duties; to them, the conflict was just them “coming after King Laman of Cairhien for the crime of cutting down Avendoraldera,” a cutting of the Tree of Life itself that was given, along with the right to cross the Waste, to Cairhien as an offer of peace. No one knows how the Aiel came by a sapling of Avendesora, or why they called the Cairhienin “the Watersharers.” But Egwene can rather understand why the Aiel would be mad that Laman cut down their gift to make himself a throne.
Elyane points out that “He Who Comes With the Dawn,” must be Rand, surprising Egwene. She mentions the prophecy of how the Dragon will be born on Dragonmount, and how Rand does look like an Aiel, or rather like pictures she has seen of someone called Tigraine. Elayne suspects his mother was a Maiden of the Spear, and Egwene thinks quietly to herself that Nynaeve might know more about Rand’s birth than she is saying.
They are passing some trees when suddenly Elayne cries out a warning; Egwene touches saidar but she isn’t fast enough as men with slings step out from the trees, and something strikes her head, knocking her unconscious.
Egwene wakes strapped over the back of a horse, her head aching, in the middle of a group of men. She finds herself unable to gasp saidar due to the pain in her head, and hangs helpless as they arrive at a large log palisade, filled with horses and caged animals and perhaps a hundred men. She manages to catch sight of Elayne and Nynaeve too, hanging unconscious over the backs of other horses, but ten some of the men spot that she is awake and she is knocked out again.
The second time she wakes with a bitter taste in her mouth, but less pain in her head. She finds herself lying on her back in the dirt, with Nynaeve and Elayne nearby. Elayne’s face has blood on it, but Elayne can see that they are breathing and goes to put her eye to a crack in the door of the dark room. Outside she sees men and hears them talking about their prisoners, one big blond man, Adden, going on about how there’s good money in Aes Sedai prisoners, if you have the stomach to go to the right buyer. Egwene can see that they’ve taken the three serpent rings as the men continue to discuss the safety, or lack thereof, of having Aes Sedai as prisoners; one man, Coke, assures the others that his granny taught him to make stuff to keep them sleeping till sunrise.
Egwene moves back to Nynaeve as quietly as she can, and is surprised when Nynaeve jolts awake. She covers Nyneave ‘s mouth and explains the situation, and Nynaeve is dryly amused to realize (from the taste in her mouth) that the man gave them sleepwell root, which merely eases headaches and can make people drowsy, but in their case, just cleared the pain they were suffering from being hit in the head.
But things get more complicated when they go to wake Elayne and Nynaeve discovers that she’s much more badly hurt, possibly dying. Nynaeve, trembling, says she can’t heal Elayne without her herbs, and then begins to berate Elayne, saying that she didn’t bring Elayne all this way just to have her die, that she should have left her scrubbing pots or tied her up in a sack for Mat to carry to Morgase. Saidar blossoms around her, and Elayne’s eyes and mouth both open.
Egwene got her hands over Elayne’s mouth just in time to muffle any sound, she thought, but as she touched her, the eddies of Nynaeve’s Healing caught her like a straw on the edge of a whirlpool. Cold froze her to the bone, meeting heat that “seared outward as if it meant to crisp her flesh; the world vanished in a sensation of rushing, falling, flying, spinning.
When it finally ended, she was breathing hard and staring down at Elayne, who stared back over the hands she still had pressed over her woman’s mouth. The last of Egwene’s headache was gone. Even the backwash of what Nynaeve had done had apparently been enough for that. The murmur of voices from the other room was no louder; if Elayne had made any noise—or if she had—Adden and the others had not noticed.
Nynaeve was on her hands and knees, head down and shaking. “Light!” she muttered. “Doing it that way… was like peeling off… my own skin. Oh, Light!” She peered at Elayne. “How do you feel, girl?” Egwene pulled her hands away.
Elayne answers that she feels tired and hungry, and Egwene fills her in on everything. The three embrace saidar and go back to see what they have to deal with… and find that three Myrddraal have arrived. One picks up a ring from the table, not a Great Serpent ring but a heavier gold one, and Nynaeve fumbles around her neck when she sees it. Another Myrddraal declares that these three Aes Sedai are the ones it seeks, and that the men will be well rewarded. Nynaeve whispers that they must take the Myrddraal by surprise, and Egwene reaches out with Earth to break the iron chain holding the door. One of the Myrddraal senses her small channeling, but not in time; as the chain falls and the Myrddraal turn, the outer door bursts open as well and Aiel, in their black veils, come pouring in.
Soon all the men are down (as well as two Aiel) and the Myrddraal stand back to back surrounded by Aiel, taunting them by pounding on their shields and demanding that the “Eyeless” dance with them. Nynaeve decides this is the moment to get involved, and the three women push the door of their prison open.
It seemed as though, for the Myrddraal, the Aiel had ceased to exist, and for the Aiel, the Myrddraal. The Aiel stared at Egwene and the others above their veils as if not quite sure what they were seeing; she heard one of the women gasp loudly. The Myrddraal’s eyeless stare was different. Egwene could almost feel the Halfmen’s knowledge of their own deaths in it; Halfmen knew women embracing the True Source when they saw them. She was sure she could feel a desire for her death, too, if theirs could buy hers, and an even stronger desire to strip the soul out of her flesh and make both playthings for the Shadow, a desire to…
She had just stepped into the room, yet it seemed she had been meeting that stare for hours. “I’ll take no more of this,” she growled, and unleashed a flow of Fire.
She makes flames burst out of the Myrddraal even as Elayne crushes them in on themselves and “something shot out from Nynaeve’s hands—a thin bar of white light that made noonday sun seem dark, a bar of fire that made molten metal seem cold, connecting her hands to the Myrddraal. And they ceased to exist as if they had never been.”
Elayne asks what Nynaeve did but Nynaeve isn’t sure. Egwene, privately, thinks that it must have been Balefire. They release saidar and the Aiel hastily unveil themselves. The men in the group remind Egwene of Warders by the way they carry themselves, and recognizes Aviendha among the women. One of the dead is Dailin, and Nynaeve curses at them that she did not Heal the woman just to have her die like this.
Elayne apologizes for interrupting their “dance,” but an older man, Rhuarc, says that while they could have killed the Myrddraal, three Shadowmen would have killed some of them too, if not all, and that while the young wish to try their strength against death, the older are not quite so eager. Nynaeve, apparently soothed by meeting an Aiel who does not seem quite so excited about death, thanks the Aiel, and asks how they found them. Aviendha admits that she was following them and saw them get captured, and went to find some of the other Aiel she knew were in the area, although she did not expect to find her own clan chief, Rhuarc, among them. Rhuarc, meanwhile, is interested in the gold ring on the table; up close Egwene recognizes it as one she has seen before on a cord around Nynaeve’s neck. Nynaeve snatches it away from him.
“And one of them carries a ring I have heard of as a boy. The ring of Malkieri kings. They rode with the Shienarans against the Aiel in my father’s time. They were good in the dance of the spears. But Malkier fell to the Blight. It is said only a child king survived, and he courts the death that took his land as other men court beautiful women. Truly, this is a strange thing, Aes Sedai. Of all the strange sights I thought I might see when Melaine harried me out of my own hold and over the Dragonwall, none has been so strange as this. The path you set me is one I never thought my feet would follow.”
Nynaeve insists she sets no path, and declares her intention to take horses and continue on their way, but since it is night they agree to wait until morning. The Aiel accompany them, easily keeping pace with the horses, until the rooftops of Jurene come into view. Then they leave, Rhuarc telling them that perhaps they will “meet again before the change comes.”
In Jurene they hide their Aes Sedai rings and find a ship called the Darter docked there. From its captain they learn that the Blue Crane is still hung up on something up river. Nynaeve pays for their passage, and the three get back on their way.
When I say Nynaeve was wrong while still managing to be right, I’m referring to the fact that this “easy two hour walk” turned into a very near disaster, as Captain Ellisor warned her it would. However, they did make it all in one piece, and much sooner than they would have if they had stayed on the Blue Crane, so in the end she was overconfident and maybe even foolish… but still right.
I can imagine that restraint and humility are going to be hard lessons for Nynaeve to learn, given how her talents keep letting her scrape by when by all rights maybe she shouldn’t—not to mention some rather pervasive luck. I am very curious as to how far she’s gotten in her studies in the White Tower and whether any of the healing she does in these chapters is something she has studied at all. It was interesting to see the difference between her first Healing of Dailin using both her herbs and saidar vs. when she Heals Elayne with the Power alone. The Aes Sedai would certainly never have taught her to use herbs in conjunction with her power; however, using the herbs seemed to take a lot less out of her. Perhaps because they are the thing she has studied, and understands, whereas her use of saidar is much more new, unknown, and untested.
All three women have shown their progressing strength in these chapters, from the ease with which Egwene and Elayne can reach saidar to Nynaeve’s Healing powers, to the way they all took out the Myrddraal. And now we know what Balefire is, and it seems to be the same as the bolts of white light that we saw Rand shooting from his fists, earlier.
These increasing powers are a source of strain between Nynaeve and Egwene, though. I suppose it was inevitable. It’s not just that Nynaeve was once the Wisdom and therefore in charge of Egwene and the other women of Emond’s Field—she also has a particularly maternal and protective instinct when it comes to Egwene because of the connection she forged between them the first time she used her Power, instinctively Healing Egwene without knowing that she was doing it. Being protective of Egwene is part of Nynaeve’s identity; half the reason she came to the White Tower was to protect and look after Egwene. She’s moved beyond that motivation now, but the protective instinct is going to be harder to let go of, I think.
Egwene, however, is rapidly becoming more and more independent, and desirous of that independence. A lot of that seems to have been catalyzed by her experiences as a damane, and while Egwene is still fairly deferential to the Aes Sedai who have seniority over her (at least in comparison to how Nynaeve handles it), you can see how much she craves being the senior instead. I made a similar observation about her attitudes back in week 7 of the read of The Dragon Reborn, and I feel like we’re already seeing more evidence for my suggestion back then that she might end up being Amyrlin one day. There’s her trip through the third archway of the ter’angreal, of course, but there’s also her continued attempts to suss out when rules are correct and when they are not, when decisions are wise and when they are not, and her budding need to assert a prerogative over those choices. She really isn’t a little girl anymore, and I can understand her need to re-evaluate her relationship to Nynaeve as equals as a logical first step in owning her own authority.
You can compare and contrast that need with her struggle to understand the politics of interacting with the Aiel. I remain amused at the extent to which the Aiel we encounter still act and speak as though everyone should understand their culture and have similar ways of being themselves. There is no reason for Chiad and Bain to be shocked that there is no equivalent of “speaking words” to become first sisters in the countries outside of their homeland, or be certain that everyone knows that no Aiel warrior would raise a hand against a Wise One/Aes Sedai. (Although I guess I can see how they would expect Aes Sedai to know more than them on every subject.) I think the point is supposed to be that their rules of being are so strict and so ingrained that they just can’t quite get their heads around the idea that other people wouldn’t follow at least very similar ways of living.
Speaking of first-sisters, and excuse my language here, but what the eff is this nonsense? To quote my dear partner Emily (whose opinions can also be found on this site), only a straight cis man would come up with a culture in which women who are best friends take an oath to act like biological sisters and that includes “not letting a man come to one without the other.” I’m not against the concept of polyamorous cultures at all, but I am against the compulsive heterosexuality this implies, as well as the implication that this only goes one way. I will revise this opinion if we later learn that there are also equivalent first-brother relationships and perhaps see some non-heterosexual version of such couplings, but as I’m understanding it right now… yeah. No.
The way it is phrased here makes it sound like if a man sleeps with one first-sister, then he must sleep with the other one, not that the two women are partners who sometimes add a third in the bedroom. Egwene certainly understands it the same way, and the compulsive heterosexuality here is so strong that even the suggestion that Maidens of the Spear “don’t care for men” is put forward as a celibate state, rather than a sapphic one.
On the other hand, I am glad that the Maidens of the Spear do have some sexual agency, and are not required to remain celibate when they are wedded to the spear. While it is problematic that they are forced to choose between families and the warrior life in a way that men do not seem to be, I’ll take what we can get at this point. But seriously Jordan, if you’re telling me that these women are speaking bonding oaths in front of the ruling orders of their septs and it’s not because they’re marrying each other, I do not believe you. That is not how ladies work, my man.
I suppose that this idea of first-sisters-by-oath is setting us up for Rand having three ladies in his life, as Min has seen in her viewings. Clearly the biggest pull for the Dragon in a polyamorous relationship is the Pattern deciding what bonds he needs with people in order for things to go the way the Wheel Wants to Weave. And while polyamory that is (or at least appears to only be) for men having multiple female partners is never going to be non-problematic, one of the reasons people engage in polyamory is because they get different things from different people, different roles or different energies or what have you. I can certainly see how being partnered to the Dragon himself would be a bit much, and Elayne (who will have her kingdom to rule) and Min (a very independent sort) and whoever else ends up stuck to him might need a break from that now and again. being able to trade off with one of the other ladies might be a welcome relief. Still, I feel like introducing this concept as part of Aiel culture is a way of “legitimizing” the unconventional relationship in a very hand-wavy sort of way, rather than giving it more depth of thought.
Still, this is a lot of supposition about something that hasn’t come about yet, so I’ll have to wait and see if my worries are correct or if Jordan surprises me.
Anyway, getting back to the Aiel, there are two really big reveals here about their culture that are incredibly important. The first is their ties to the Aes Sedai. Aviendha tells Elayne and Egwene that it is said that the Aiel served the Aes Sedai before the Breaking of the World, and suggests that some failure in that service may be the reason for their banishment to the Waste, although no one remembers for sure. This is the missing piece I’ve been waiting for, the start of an explanation for why the Aiel see themselves as exiles being punished for something. One assumes that the Aiel were the original warriors in service to the Aes Sedai, perhaps in some capacity similar to Warders, or perhaps as guards or an army. When Lews Therin led his company to seal the Dark One back in his prison, the Aiel either went with him when they shouldn’t have, or didn’t go when they should have, and received some of the blame for what happened with the taint and the subsequent Breaking. It makes sense, then, that their prophecies would surround the return of the Dragon; maybe they’re like a living version of the oathbreakers in The Lord of the Rings, whom Isildur cursed to wait in the Paths of the Dead until they could fulfill their oath to him by following Aragorn into battle against Sauron. Now that the Dragon has returned, they can serve him correctly and make up for the error of their forebears.
The other mention here that seems important is Elayne stating that Rand “looks like pictures [she has] seen of Tigraine.” Tigraine has come up a few times in the books thus far, although I admit I had to look back through the glossaries and relevant chapters to remember who she was.
She first comes up in Chapter 34 of The Eye of the World, when Rand and Mat are riding in Bunt’s cart into Caemlyn, and he’s chattering away about Morgase. He mentions that “Tigraine vanished—run off or dead—when it came time for her to take the throne.” I had forgotten the fact that Morgase did not take the throne from her own mother, the way Elayne will (barring political upheaval, anyway), and how we were given that first glimpse into the story of the fight for the throne, the chopping down of “the Tree” and the Aiel war. The name Taringail Damodred came up then, too; father of Galad (whose mother was Tigraine) as well as Elayne and Gawyn. I think it’s very significant that no one knows if Tigraine died or not, and also that Elayne is so quick to dismiss the possibility of Tigraine being Rand’s mother, despite seeing so much similarity between their appearances.
Of course, that coincidence would seem extreme from her point of view; it’s less of a problem for those of us sitting back and watching all the threads come together from our high vantage point as readers. I feel like there are still some pieces missing, but I’m going to do the best I can to put together the whole picture here. Tigraine was the Daughter-Heir of Andor, whom Rand looks a lot like, which implies that Tigraine also looked like an Aiel. At the same time she was alive in Andor, there was an otherwise unprecedented peace between the Aiel and Cairhien which allowed the Cairhien to travel the Waste unmolested, and a sapling of Avendesora was growing in Cairhien after being given as a gift by the Aiel long ago. The Cairhien don’t remember what these signified, however.
I can’t quite figure out what the connection is here between Cairhien’s unique relationship with the Aiel and the fact that a Daughter-Heir of Andor appears to have had Aiel blood, but there must be one. In short order her brother goes missing in the Blight, Tigraine disappears, and during the ensuing conflicts over succession to the throne of Andor, the king of Cairhien, Laman, cut down the tree. Maybe he was trying to take over Andor and make it part of his own kingdom? We know there is frequent conflict between the two countries so it would make sense, and such goals would be as obvious a reason as any to make yourself a super special fancy throne. (It’s a power move, like, say, making a throne out of the swords of all your enemies.) A glance through the glossary of The Great Hunt tells me Laman was also a Damodred, so there’s a connection there, and we know Taringail was politically ambitious, since he went and got himself engaged to the Daughter-Heir and then immediately found a new Queen to marry after the first prospect disappeared.
Anyway, if Tigraine did have Aiel blood, she ostensibly could have gone back to join those people, become a Maiden of the Spear, conceived Rand, and not gone for the whole “you have to choose between fighting and being a mom” thing. In which case, props to her, even though it didn’t quite work out.
Whew. Excuse me while I go mop sweat from my brow; this sort of complex map-making is not my strong suit. But I think I have the vague shape of it, although I imagine some of the details are off or just dead wrong.
I also feel like there are other really important things in these chapters that i missed bringing up, but this post is getting long and my brain is fried, so I will leave you with my final thoughts below. Next week we cover three more chapters, 40-42, and catch up again with Mat, Perrin, and Faile.
Final thoughts from my notes:
- From the beginning of Chapter 37, we see Egwene already thinking/talking more like Moiraine. She’s gonna make a good Aes Sedai.
- Egwene is getting more stubborn and bloodthirsty than Nynaeve now
- Egwene’s not the only one who sounds more like an Aes Sedai; Aviendha remarks on how Nynaeve talks like a Wise One.
- Description of Nynaeve’s Healing “What Nynaeve had done in those few seconds had seemed like weaving four carpets at once while blindfolded.”
- Why is it called the Dragonwall?
- Poor Elayne, always the diplomat as she tries to make peace between stubborn Nynaeve and equally stubborn Egwene.
- Aviendha has an important sounding name. Also, the way she is centered in this narrative makes me think she’s going to be important in the future.
- Mist seems nice. Where is Bela these days? Still in Tar Valon, I guess?
Sylas K Barrett anticipates looking back on this week’s predictions in a few books and either being very impressed at his accuracy or completely amused by how wrong it all is. Until then, you all can have those emotions instead.
Grammar first: “but in their cause” should be “but in their case”
And I’m pretty sure the opening quotation mark is missing in Sylas’s description of Nynaeve’s balefire, but I’m not sure where the actual quote starts.
Second: Holy s*** did Sylas put Tigraine’s backstory together quickly. I’m feeling like a dunce now.
Third: I really hope there’s an example of non-polyamorous first sisters before Elayne and Aviendha. I’m not sure I can take 7-8 books of criticism of Jordan writing a cis-male fantasy before the counter-argument appears.
You’re going to be very disappointed in the depictions of romantic relationships throughout the series. Though it’s convenient that this week’s chapters contained one of the things I commented on last week – namely, the very strong implication that some of the Aiel polyamory involves (female) bisexuality and group sex.
“I really hope there’s an example of non-polyamorous first sisters before Elayne and Aviendha.”
The closest we get is Amys and Melaine, both of whom have “sister-wives” who never appear on-screen and who are presumably playing the dutiful housewife while their partners run about saving the world.
Yeah, I have to admit, when it comes to sexual relationship dynamics….you’re gonna have a bad time. “That’s not how ladies work,” – LOL, yeah, probably something RJ could have stood to learn. I think there are a view veiled (ba dum tss!) references to female bisexuality/lesbianism among the Aiel (not counting pillow friends in the Aes Sedai which is its own somewhat weirdly problematic thing) but maybe I’m just coloring that with my own faulty remembrances.
Oh man the Tigraine thing. //Soooo close yet so far :) Tigraine doesn’t look like an Aiel, she joins the Aiel. Hence, Rand looking like both the Aiel and Tigraine :) //
Egwene’s relationship with the Aiel and how it shapes her is actually one of my favorite things in the series.
After reading some of this speculation, I can’t wait for that chapter in The Shadow Rising. You all know the one…
IIRC, once we get to the Waste, don’t we encounter Roofmistresses that have more than one husband?
“I’m not sure I can take 7-8 books of criticism of Jordan writing a cis-male fantasy before the counter-argument appears.”
Depending on the reader I’m not sure if this will ever not be an issue for anyone reading the WoT in the modern era. I myself have no problem with it, but I also first read the books as a cis-het male teenager whose most productive thought on the issue was “nice” *head bob*.
I know that it’s something that writers have talked about changing up in the upcoming Amazon show. I’m a little anxious in how much they change it up since these are still character relationships/dynamics that I hold dear, but I imagine that it might be something closer to the polyamorous ideal that Sylas described to make it a little less harem like.
@1 – Corrected, thanks.
@@.-@ – I’m pretty sure the most overt reference to Aiel female bisexuality was Bain & Chiad in this very chapter, in which it very much sounds like the two of them are lovers who occasionally allow a man to join in the fun.
@6 – I definitely don’t recall anything of the sort, and it doesn’t seem like the kind of thing Jordan would have even considered alluding to.
If Egwene’s dream about a gray man hunting Mat was about the one on the bridge in Tar Valon, then that dream came late. Is there another that I don’t remember?
If Min ever springs a trap without noticing, then apparently I haven’t noticed it either.
The thing is, as veteran readers will know, that Rand is NEVER happy with being in love with three women. I believe it’s actually a contributor of his mental instability considering how much it stresses him out. Given that Jordan himself was apparently in a polyamourous relationship in his younger years (wasn’t even his idea), I really don’t think this is even necessarily a fantasy of his. Then we have the various Arthurian symbolisms that comes with the relationship with the three….
I just think that a lot of the “icky” or “problematic” criticism towards this comes from a kneejerk reaction, and this first reaction usually leave little room left for thoughtful analysis afterward. I’m admittedly a little protective over Jordan when he’s put under the lens of modern feminism because, unlike many authors of his time, he was actually brave enough to change up the gender tropes, and even address some of them head on. And yet, he tends to be put of the coals more often for having done so even though other authors just stuck with the same tried and true historical sexist tropes.
Why are the expectation for a man in his 40’s who wrote a fantasy series in the 1980s, when publishers would not publish fantasy books that overtly had homosexual and transgender heroes, so damn high?
I know I’m opening up a can of worms here, so I’ll try to state this as neutrally as I can. I dislike, in general, criticism on the basis of this group or that group not being represented, or worse, each group not being represented in every possible permutation. There are only so many characters in a story and the prevalence of certain groups have varied and will vary over time. If you strive to include every possible permutation of the human condition in the narrative, which to my knowledge, no one has succeeded at, you will muddle the main narrative with unnecessary back stories and ultimately create a less realistic cast of characters.
In short, there’s plenty here to talk about without spending time talking about what was not included. Which, to me at least, is a much less interesting topic.
I may be controversial, I don’t know, but why would someone think the Aiel should be more open on questions like gender, sexual relationships, etc. than they already are? They are a seminomadic people, and in real world seminomadic people often have an habit of polygamy, and almost always the ratio is one husband to many wives. I would understand the “complaints” if the story took place during the Age of Legends (during those times society had to be really advanced), but I think Sylas is looking this through his cultural lenses, much like the Aiels do with the wetlanders all the time.
I’m not saying it is right that Aiel relationships are as they are, I am saying that it may be considered plausible (taking into account the fact that the Aiel culture resemble many real world cultures and yet it is its own culture).
Came upon your readthrough and having gone through all the blog posts, here are some corrections to things you’ve either missed/misread:
-A spell in WoT is called a “weave”.
-The bond from healing someone isn’t as strong as you seem to think. It’s more just an affinity.
-The Ajah’s did not exist prior to the breaking of the world. Ajah’s prior to the breaking were temporary project groups.
-Wilders are those who learn without any Aes Sedai oversight. Egwene had Moraine and is not a wilder.
-Tar Valon was built by Ogier stone masons.
-Why Verin says she was sent by Moraine (TGH, Chapter 7, first page):
“Moiraine gave the Brown sister a wry look. Another danger confronts us, and she sounds as if it is a puzzle in a book. Light, the Browns truly are not aware of the world at all. “Then we must find the dagger, Sister. Agelmar is sending men to hunt those who took the Horn and slew his oathmen, the same who took the dagger. If one is found, the other will be.”
-The three ta’veren are all boys born within a week of Rand’s birth because the pattern was trying to hide Rand’s identity. Three ta’veren at once is unheard of outside of this event.
-Ta’veren bend probability. Min sees possible outcomes of the pattern which is why her viewings aren’t constant. When they are constant and she knows what they mean, they are locked in and inescapable.
-Duality is a big thing in WoT. Most things have a counterpart across light and shadow or male and female. Wolfbrothers are a counterpart to Dreamwalkers (both access TAR), which is why the wolfbrothers we’ve seen are male and the dreamwalkers mainly female.
-The Green Ajah are the counterpart to Aiel first sisters marrying the same man. Green Ajah are implied to in some cases have intimate relationships with more than one of their warders, and even marrying more than one warder. Aes Sedai are not celibate, they just rarely marry.
-In many if not most cultures in WoT sexual agency is either shared or lies with the women. The Two Rivers betrothal process is initiated by the girl and carried out between the mothers. This can be gleaned from Rand/Egwene relationship. Similarly for Ogier.
-Women are the more politically powerful gender in the Westlands. Aes Sedai are the most powerful organization and are viewed with respect by most women, while men are either respectful (borderlands) or reserved/fearful (Two Rivers/Tear). They are not universally despised. Most nations have gender neutral rulers (King or Queen, high lords and high ladies in their history) while Andor is notable as being always ruled by a Queen. The village council’s are separate but equal in power to the women’s circle, and the Wisdom is equal to the Mayor. Women use overt power all the time in the Westlands, rather than just relying on soft power.
-Read “The Strike at Shayol Ghul” short story if you want to know why the female Aes Sedai weren’t part of sealing the bore. No spoilers of real consequence, but if you’re concerned it should be fully save after book 4.
@2, I’ve no idea where you got the idea that all first sisters are sexually involved and bisexual. There’s almost certainly lesbianism, but in Aiel terms first sisters having a lesbian relationship is like biological sisters having lesbian relationships. If anything, first sisters are likely culturally less inclined to be bisexual/lesbian, at least towards each other.
I wonder what trap is the one Egwene Dreams that Min will spring without realising it. The only thing that comes to my mind is that she’s present in the Tower when Elaida deposes Siuan, but in that case she did not have a part in it.
@2, I’ve no idea where you got the idea that all first sisters are sexually involved and bisexual.
Neither do I, since I never said that, literally used the word “some” rather than “all” in my comment, never mentioned first sisters at all, and specifically addressed the example in this week’s chapter in which Bain specifically says “neither will let a man come to her without the other.” I’m not sure how you read that any way other than a female couple with occasional male accompaniment.
@16 – I’m pretty sure that trap is the one Elaida set for Siuan, which Min inadvertently sprang by returning to the Tower as “Elmindreda”.
@10 & 16
Min returning to Tar Valon and staying as Elmindreda (and being recognized by Elaida) was the whole catalyst for the Tower split.
@18&19 Thanks, I totally forgot about it! It’s been a while since my last reread (but I somehow more or less got it right).
@17 That’s clearly not the relationship that Bain, Chiad and Gaul end up having though. Gaul doesn’t even like Bain, nor does Bain like Gaul. Gaul explains that he would marry Bain as well since Bain and Chiad are first sisters, but that is all. Whether Bain and Chiad have a sexual relationship is never stated in the books beside this one comment, and there’s some ambiguity as to what allowing a man to “come to one” means here. It certainly does not spell out that they have a sexual relationship with each other, as Chiad is clearly interested in men primarily.
I actually always thought the Aiel first-sister thing was kind of nice in the way it actually breaks down the idea that sexual preference is the be-all and end-all of how relationships form.
Taking Bain, Chiad, and Gaul, for example. Chiad is pretty clearly interested in men (Gaul in particular) and Bain is clearly not interested in Gaul. But Chiad makes Bain’s consent to a marriage to Gaul the driving factor; this doesn’t have to have anything to do with sex, but with her current partner (possibly sexual, possibly platonic) being comfortable with her having a separate romantic interest. The existing emotional relationship shared there is more important than potential sexual one. And for what it’s worth, the implication is that polyamory is not just one man/multiple women – if Bain is actually also interested in men (just not Gaul), then the whole set up implies to me that Bain and future partner are required to take Chiad at least, and presumably Gaul.
And the dynamics of one man/multiple women are, unfortunately, probably inevitable in Aiel culture. Their acclimation to and acceptance of death implies that a lot of them die, and while some women are warriors, it seems pretty clear that a much larger proportion of men are involved in fighting than are women. In fact, the books leave the impression that huge swathes of Aiel men are capable of “military service” or whatever, so it’s very much within the realm of possibility that there are significantly fewer adult men in the Waste than adult women.
I’m not sure I understand the antagonism toward Robert Jordan and/or Aiel culture. I wouldn’t mind Sylas simply pointing out what parts he has a problem with and explaining why that is bad for Aiel society. But I don’t understand why writing it is considered problematic or a condemnation of RJ. Why can’t Aiel society just be flawed? There are so many vastly distinct cultures in this series. They can’t all be paradigms of gender equality. Having the Aiel get something wrong makes them more realistic to me than if they had a perfect society.
@23 The Aiel also get a bunch of other things “wrong” from an equality standpoint but nobody ever brings up any of that. Men can’t ask women to marry in Aiel culture, they can only make their intentions known. Women are the ones who lay the bridal wreath at the mans feet. When Melaine wants to marry Bael, she asks Dorindha and not Bael. And of course the crowning jewel. Men can’t own property in Aiel society.
The third age is after all basically the medieval times, leaning into the enlightenment. Looking at what is an astonishingly progressive society given that it’s still all feudalism (even if under a matriarchy most of the time rather than a patriarchy), it’s ridiculous that all of these societies still get judged by what isn’t even accepted by all today. The whole point of the series is that the perfect society was destroyed and they’re trying to get their way back to the Age of Legends and the fourth age.
@21:
It certainly does not spell out that they have a sexual relationship with each other
No, it doesn’t spell it out. That’s why I said it was implied. This is the second time you’ve intentionally misrepresented what I said in order to buttress your own belief. Kindly knock it off.
I find it so funny that Sylas’ predictions are either bang on, or so wrong. Doesn’t seem to be an in between
@23
Indeed. The one society that actually has gender equality are the despised Seanchan. We see lots of female officers in their army and no one raises and eyelash, it’s completely normal to them. But when Elayne is making her Queen’s Bodyguards made solely of women fighters under Brigitte, then people consider it scandalous.
You gotta love how the Two Rivers folk just don’t seem to get the whole “the outside world is a dangerous place” thing.
And we have Tigrane! The OG Mother of Dragons.
@10:
The dream didn’t come late. Mat is still in Tar Valon when Egwene has the dream. Mat boards his ship two days after Egwene and Co. He spends the first day walking around the Tower, the second day gambling in Tar Valon, then gets attacked by the Grey man, runs into Thom, and boards a ship in the wee hours of day three.
Then we go back in time to the opening of this section, which is the very next day after they gave Mat the letter. Mat and his ship come upon the ship Egwene and Co. were on that got stuck in his next chapter.
I still don’t know how I feel about the polyamorous thing. Really, alot of the first sisters stuff was questionable even if there were some other good moments that came out of it. I think the whole problem with is that it falls into “uncanny valley” territory where people are less willing to accept something that is “close, but still wrong” over something that is wrong but in an ordinary and familiar way.
Still a pretty cool chapter that manages to deal out crumbs of information while still providing alot of action and character development.
I’m surprised that with how well Sylas put together Tigraine and also some of the things about the Aiel, that he didn’t even attempt to make any guesses about Egwene’s dreams, or even mention them much. The one about men and women breaking out of a cage and putting crowns on seems like the kind that he’d normally spend some time on. That said, it’s easy to interpret everything, having read the series, and since I read this book way back in the 90s, I can’t remember what I thought when I firstread it!
What I love is that Everyone else forgets the other person Named Damodred…it is almost never brought up that Elayne and Moriane are basically cousins
One of my criticisms back in the day was that, although Jordan pays lip service to the notion that women are in charge in his world, he doesn’t actually write the books that way. I’m not criticising his inability to predict the staggering shift in the wider acceptability of the different gender relationships btw, just that he struggled with writing women actually being in charge in my opinion. Witness the ridiculous training/spanking and ‘pillow friends’ the Aes Sedai get up to. Props to making the effort though which is more than many people did.
As for the Tigraine idea, good spot but again a familiar trope to regular sff readers (see also R+L=J which many of us predicted as far back as book 2).
@33 Why do you consider it only lipservice? The Aes Sedai are clearly the most powerful institution in the Westlands followed by Andor, and both are ruled by women who show off their influence all the time. The Aes Sedai are an insular group who have a very militaristic bootcamp approach to breaking people down and building them back up as part of their organization. Humiliation, hazing and forming close bonds between fellow recruits is all par for the course for these kinds of environments. What with being a war vet, RJ might just know a thing or two about how that happens, and adapted that to the Aes Sedai. If that doesn’t fit with your idealized view of how women rule should look like, maybe consider the fact that this isn’t an idealized world.
I think it’s really important to not confuse sister-wives with sister-wives who are also first-sisters. In the first case they may have sex with each other too but in the second case it would be incest. It doesn’t matter if they are born sisters or become sisters later like Elayne and Aviendha. The ritual through which they become first-sisters is like being born from the same womb, so not just sisters but twins – in their case it would be twincest.
On the other parts of the article:
It’s really amusing that Sylas recognizes Tigraines importance, but is then wrong in his speculations. Tigraine has Aiel blood, because someone who resembles her looks like one. She goes away, to the Aiel, because they are the same people. Morgase and other nobles from Andor and Cairhien have no agency in the whole marriage thing, it’s all Taringail wanting power. The Aiels sin has to be some martial concern, and directly connected to LTTs assault on Shayol Ghul. Sylas is clearly an adherent of the histoy-is-great-people-and-great-moments view, instead of the truer history-is-the-story-of-humans-on-the-planet-earth view.
I’ll be interested to see if he will come to see Egwenes self-righteousness and bullying as the not good thing it is, in future installments.
@36 Maiden’s don’t generally give up the spear for a child. Instead, the children of Maiden’s are raised by surrogate families, akin to how the Qunari in Dragon Age are taken from their parents and raised communally. This is an important plot point, since the Car’a’carn is to be born of a Maiden and is the only child of theirs which “came home” so to speak. This is what binds the Maiden’s to him unlike any other of the societies.
I do however agree that it’s fairly obvious why you wouldn’t want pregnant women engaged in fighting. Not only are children in general precious to a warrior culture with a high death rate by battle, but also you’re risking getting the Car’a’carn killed before he is ever born. Needless to say they might be less than enthused about that.
@32: Moiraine is Elaynes aunt. Taringail was her half-brother.
@33: I think it is ridiculous to hold corporal punishment as ridiclulous because it doesn’t happen in modern western countries anymore. And thinking that young women don’t discover sexuality in puberty is just patently wrong. Instead of thinking RJ is a bad writer, maybe think about that he wanted to show how wrong strong delineation between genders is? That is a big thing in the series, in the third age relations between genders are out of whack. One example would be that mens magic makes them go insane, while women don’t have that problem.
@32, @40:
It hasn’t been mentioned yet, @32. Moiraine isn’t revealed as a Damodred until Thom outs her in the opening of the next book. At this point we don’t even know if Elayne is aware that her last name is Damodred. She certainly doesn’t view her as a familial person. AS far as we know, she’s never met Moiraine at this point int he series.
@41 You are correct. While Moiraine was sufficiently high within her house that it is stated the Tower wanted to push her towards the throne after Laman’s fall, her actual choices have put 20 years distance between herself and the Damodred family line.
While Elayne wouldn’t know of Moiraine, Morgase came to the Tower in 971 and Moiraine entered the tower in 972. However, since Tigraine also goes missing in 972 and sparks the succession crisis in Andor, they may have not met each other as novices or only briefly ran into each other. Interesting thing to consider I suppose. If Morgase had met Moiraine she might have remembered that Elayne had a relative on her father’s side who was a full sister and might have told her about Moiraine before sending her to the tower. The fact that this didn’t happen would likely mean that either they did not meet at the Tower, but it’s interesting to consider.
Re: unpublished comments @36 and @42-43: First, it’s best to avoid making sweeping proclamations and blanket statements about “modern feminists”, which feels very much like trolling; secondly, making assumptions and snide comments about individuals’ gender and personal experiences is a non-starter, here. If you want to disagree with Sylas (or any one else)’s interpretations or opinions, that’s perfectly fine: but don’t make the person themselves the focus of your criticism. You don’t know them. Also, as always, don’t be rude, dismissive, or otherwise violate our Moderation Policy, which you should read and keep in mind going forward.
One comment in response to 36 was also unpublished, only because it didn’t make much sense once the original was removed, but we appreciate the response. As always, feel free to flag comments that seem abusive or inappropriate.
Ok, Ok. I realize that my first post was inflammatory. Here without the sarcasm:
I don’t think that the only thing women would swear oaths to is marriage. And I don’t think that view shows especially good understanding of how people tick. Also, I don’t think that giving Tigraine props for breaking handed down rules, just for the sake of rejecting traditional views is right. The “you go girl” mentality is not generally good if endorsing any parent keeping up a dangerous occupation that keeps them away for long times, IMHO.
@39: Yes, that Sylas thinks that Maidens are being kept from being biological mothers is my point. :-)
So let’s try to tackle this passage. Firstly, the Aiel are a culture where surrogate parentage is a common occurrence. As such they have a naturally different view of family than the simplistic biological family concept. You do not know growing up if your parents are your own, or if your mother was a maiden who gave you up for someone else to raise. You also do not know if your siblings are blood related to you or if they were the children of maidens. As such, Aiel society is naturally more open to the concept that you become family by choice as well as circumstance.
It’s not a long way from accepting that the brother or sister you’ve known from birth is your family regardless if you may or may not be blood related to finding kindred souls in your life and treating them as if they were your real family as well. That’s what the first sister concept is speaking to. Women who share a bond as strong as with any blood relative and who wish to formalize their familial status in the eyes of the clan(s). It’s basically adoption. And for what it’s worth, I do believe women work that way, just as men do.
@49
The Shaarad and the Goshien have had a blood feud that has lasted hundreds of years by the time of the books. I believe the point was made that the reason they said the words in each others holds was specifically because of this, as a show of their dedication to each other even in the face of the blood feud.
Yeah, but I didn’t think the first-sister ceremony with its biological sisterhood simulation could be done twice. Maybe it can.
I have to say, the fact that Sylas has make so many correct guesses about what’s coming makes it extremely satisfying when he’s entirely off base about something — specifically, the history of the Aiel and the nature of their relationship with the Aes Sedai.
Not that I blame him — it’s a fantastic twist that left me reeling on first read — but it’s just nice to know that he’s not going to call everything right from the get-go (especially after seeing him call Aviendha as Important when it took me several more books to catch on). The army of the Aes Sedai! Hah!
@49, @50:
“Saying the words” involves a Wise One who can channel, and an actual bonding and weave. I think @49’s point is this weave isn’t going to be laid down more than once on the pair, and anyone involved in the ceremony is going to know that one was the real deal, and the other is for show. Hence “RJ hasn’t worked it out yet.” They may have repeated the words of the ceremony in each hold, but the ACTUAL ceremony, which involves channeling, only happens once.
My god, it is fun watching someone else try to put all the pieces together… I’m loving this!
“I had forgotten the fact that Morgase did not take the throne from her own mother, the way Elayne will (barring political upheaval, anyway) […]”
Hahaha, “political upheaval” is all but inevitable in a fantasy story of this kind. In this case, politics are gonna get upheaved literally everywhere in the world, except possibly the Land of Madmen.
@48
Interesting analysis on why the Aiel accept “adopted” familial bonds more readily than other cultures. I hadn’t thought of it that way before.
Sylas makes an admirable try here to forecast things, but in spite of mostly figuring out Tigraine, he’s far off on Aiel history, first-sisters, and Taringail. He just doesn’t have enough information yet and is extrapolating on limited evidence. I’m still impressed he got as much as he has. I didn’t figure out Tigraine until TSR, when Amys recounts how Shaiel showed up in the waste having been sent by Gitara Moroso, and how she looks like Luc who we met in the chapter previous. Rand’s parentage is not spelled out clearly until LoC.
@55 Mayene managed to stay pretty stable
Moiraine tells Siuan in Fal Dara that she has met Elayne and she knows her OP strength, so the meeting can’t have been too long ago.
I edited #49 and it vanished, maybe back into the moderation queue. I don’t know if it will reappear since more comments have gone through moderation since then, so am reposting it below. Apologies if this turns out to be a double post; I’ll check in on it later.
I’m surprised that Sylas is surprised that the Maidens are surprised by the cultural differences revealed in this conversation. Aiel culture is insular to a degree that I don’t think we in the all-connecting parts of the modern world can comprehend — even more than the Two Rivers, where the people may see fewer strangers but don’t live that differently from their neighbor. Aiel may have been told that people outside the Three-Fold Land live differently than they do, but they don’t see it unless they spend much time with the types of travelers they allow there (unlikely) or leave it. These Maidens have spent time in another land, but may not have had much opportunity for this kind of conversation, and it makes sense to me that they wouldn’t know or assume the detail of the ways that How Things Are Always Done And Have Been Done for Millennia by their people differ from those of other people.
Yeah, I think magically bonded first-sisters would be less likely to be lovers, since I’ve seen that the ceremony simulates literal biological sisterhood. (Near-sisters and unrelated sister-wives, yes. Natural or magical first-sisters, no)Sylas hasn’t seen that yet, and I look forward the day (multiple years from now, sigh) when he does. It seems odd to me that he would think people would never get culturally bonded in any way that’s not romantic or sexual. It’s problematic and unappealing that first-sisters will make a man “have” both of them or neither, but I think that can be worked around if not everyone in a particular threesome really wants to participate.
Bain and Chiad “said the words” to become first-sisters twice, in each other’s enemy holds? That’s…not how it works. Maybe Jordan hadn’t fully worked out the finalized concept yet.
I pity the Aiel. Their society is appealing in some ways, but I so don’t want to live in a place where there’s so little water that swimming is an astounding, barely-thinkable concept. Though their fear of the river amusedly reminds me of the way some Shadowspawn (Trollocs, Myrddraal, Darkhounds) have an extreme and unexplained aversion to crossing waterways.
I also want to “die near water,” though not if taking me to water would cause my untimely death.
*sigh* I got really bummed that Dailin died right after Nynaeve Healed her. It must have been so much more awful for Nynaeve.
“Blue Crane” seems an odd ship name. I wonder if this world has actual blue cranes. No reason why it wouldn’t. Makes me thing of our variously-blue heron and egret species.
It pleases me that Egwene wants to learn about the sailors’ tasks simply because she “did not like being ignorant.” To me, this versatile curiosity is her most endearing trait.
“Aviendha has an important-sounding name.” *snort* I think it is a rather cool name, but so are the names of many relatively plot-unimportant people in this story.
Heh, I think “running from someone dangerous” is among the vaguest possible predictions about a fantasy protagonist. Most of this story’s protagonists repeatedly run from dangerous persons.
Puppets wielded by puppets wielded by puppets ad infinitem is an apt metaphor for the power and manipulation structures in this story, certainly for the forces of Dark but also for others.
I’m partial to the landscape and vegetation descriptions in this section. I want more of them. Jordan will never give me enough of them, but I savor what I get.
I know the idea of this re-read is to be not spoilery, but I think it would save Sylas a lot of aggravation going forward (especially in the next book) if somebody just told him that vows for “first brothers” also exist and that, generally speaking, the adoption ceremony is literally an adoption ceremony, where you’re joining another person as a family member despite not being biologically related to them. I have a feeling Sylas is going to get very upset by a lot of things that happen going forward because of the fact that the adoption ceremony, and the fact that both men and women undergo it, aren’t specifically clarified until six books from now.
We only have the one example of a woman marrying multiple men (with Myrelle Berengari, where we hear that she’s “rumored” to have married all of her warders, which is then confirmed by the presence of her multiple marriage knives in tel’aran’rhiod). But from a historical perspective, we know that polygamy makes sense in cultures such as the Aiel, where comparatively far more males die before parenting children than do females. In those types of circumstances, from an evolutionary perspective it makes sense for surviving men to father children by multiple women, since otherwise you’ll get population decline as healthy women of childbearing age are unable to find partners.
As for the rest… yeah, there’s a lot of sexual politics that seems outdated now in the series, but for a guy born in the 40’s and writing in the 80’s and 90’s this was definitely ahead of the curve with respect to gender issues. From my perspective there are really only two things that just cannot translate in 2019, and I think they’ll have to excise them for the television show to be made. One is Tylin’s repeated rape of Mat, played for laughs. That just will not go over at all. The other is Aran’gar… and honestly I’m at a loss as to how Sylas will even begin to analyze that character.
@58:
To be clear, Moiraine says that she has “seen” the Daughter-Heir, not that she has “met” the Daughter-Heir. And given the context of the sentence, she must have been close enough to gauge Elayne’s strength.
That does not mean that they were introduced, or that Elayne has any idea who Moiraine is, or even that Elayne knows the name of the random Aes Sedai who was once in her presence, perhaps in a group of Sisters, perhaps just sneaking down the hallway to observe her mother speaking with Elaida and a guest.
Also, when they are talking about strength in the OP in that scene, they aren’t talking about actual strength, but potential strength, which can be measured around the same time that they can be tested. Which the Seanchan start doing at 13, if I remember correctly. If that is correct, Moiraine’s viewing of Elayne could have been at any point over the preceding 5 years or so.
Of course, that doesn’t mean they weren’t introduced, either. Just that we don’t know from what the text gives us.
AeronaGreenjoy @59:
I took this to mean how she gave the formal “Aviendha of the Nine Valleys sept of the Taardad Aiel” version, although on further reflection that doesn’t really make sense, since every Aiel we’ve met so far has introduced themselves via sept and clan. *shrug*
Interesting take on sexual preferences and gender issues. I must admit I hadn’t even considered any of this during my first read, simply because I don’t really care. Someone’s sexual preference is only important if you wish to have sex with them. Otherwise, it’s their business. And in fiction, the information should reveal something about the character or service the plot in some way.
With that in mind, Rand’s harem works. Kinda. Aviendha, Elayne and Min all have different relationships with him, each anchoring him in their own way. In hindsight, Elayne is the odd woman out, since she barely spends any time with him at all. But she’s the first to become pregnant (if I remember correctly), so there’s that. And Min is probably the one I’d consider his true life partner, if I had to choose.
Though, now that I think about it, Jordan really didn’t represent every iteration of sexuality. I don’t remember any homosexual males, for example. Not that he needed to, as @12 put it. Trying to please everyone doesn’t always make for interesting fiction.
With regard to Rand and his relationship with Elayne, Min and Aviendha, the only time he was ever with all three at the same time was the bonding ceremony in Caemlyn. So, we never saw what sort of relationship the four might have formed if they lived together.
The polyamorous relationship might have been a troubling psychological issue for Rand and, perhaps, an equally troubling issue for the three women, but the details of their domestic arrangements was not something that the author ever had to deal with.
For whatever it’s worth, I think the Aiel first-sisters-husbands thing is meant to sound a bit like what I’ve read of the polyandrous societies of Nepal and neighboring areas. Culturally, it’s seen more as men (always/nearly always brothers) sharing a wife rather than a woman having multiple husbands.
The thing to remember is that, historically, marriage customs in cultures reflect survival strategies and broader social issues more than they do personal preferences. Polyandry, in the type we’re discussing, is a survival strategy in areas with limited resources. Dividing land among multiple children would leave them without enough to support a family. This system gets around it by limiting the number of descendants while maintaining (or trying to maintain) solidarity among siblings.
However, multiple wives usually goes the other way, economically. It means an increased number of people to support.
Long story short, I have a lot of doubts about the first-sisters-husband thing in practical terms of something that would evolve in a society. I don’t see it as having advantages as a survival strategy for their culture in economic terms and I don’t buy into the argument (which seems to be the one the story’s going with) of it being a social stabilizer by allowing women to maintain close bonds by somehow neutralizing the potential for romantic rivalry.
RE: First sisters and Bain and Chiad.
I’m not sure we are reading this right. I don’t think all first sisters marry the same man. I don’t think all women who swear the bond oath to each other and are transformed in to first sisters marry the same man either. The term for women married to the same man is sister-wife. Not all first sisters become sister-wives to each other, and not all sister-wives swear the oath and become first-sisters.
I think this particular scene (especially the line about not allowing a man to come to one without the other) is about Bain and Chiad in particular, not about Aiel customs in general. They became First Sisters in order to formally watch each other’s backs as Maidens, in spite of being from feuding clans.
One of them marrying a man would mean giving up the Spear, which would mean leaving the other and not being there to fulfill that vow to watch each other’s backs. The idea of this pact is that they will leave the Maidens together, or not at all.
I think. Maybe?
@65
There are plenty of cultural instances of one man having multiple wives. Mormons. Islam allows for it, as long as the man can provide for each of his wives. The mongols practiced it (at least Genghis Khan had multiple wives).
In terms of evolutionary advantage, another commenter seemed to hit the nail on the head when they said that a warrior society in which the majority of men engage in frequent battle would likely have a high death rate among men. As a result, the ratio of women to men in that society may be skewed in adulthood, meaning that it makes sense to share a man if two women were interested in the same man. Even when we consider that a sizable portion of women are removed from the active “dating pool” due to being maidens of the spear, there’s still likely more than one woman to every one man among adult Aiel.
Sure, lots of examples. But, the story seemed to cite an example based on polyandry that didn’t fit the translation into polygyny.
Going by my sporadic and very random reading of anthropology and related stuff, I understand that, when you use economic models, there are three basic groupings of polygyny (these are probably all a bit rough and I’m sure there’s overlap. Also, there are issues of non-economic power balances. But, let’s stick with the rough generalization for now).
First group: Wives are economically dependent on the husband. This puts wives in competition for themselves and their children, but it also gives husbands significant power to try and deal with the issues that may arise. Mixed stability.
Second group: Wives are economically independent. Wives are not in competition for themselves (may be for children) but have little cause for cooperation. Husbands have limited power to arbitrate. Most unstable.
Third group: Wives are economically interdependent. Requires higher degree of cooperation among wives who may have greater influence in selection of new wives than the other two examples. Most stable of the three (according to what was probably a simplified summary of this stuff. Just saying).
Now, we don’t know that much about the Aiel economy or where wealth tends to be concentrated. Still, even in the second and third examples, most cultures where men are allowed multiple wives, it tends to self-limit to men of greater wealth and/or status. The Aiel version would likely limit to women who had their own economic resources to draw on. Because the men are the ones with less choice in this system, it doesn’t seem like they can accept or reject wives based on whether they feel they can support a larger household.
Still, that largely limits to the second type, economically independent women (economically interdependent ones usually are interdependent with the husband as well, so his wealth/status has to be considered). But, that wouldn’t create social factors that would demand such a high degree of affiliation between the wives.
We also don’t know if the first-sisters who marry always share husbands. We do know that only first-sisters do share them. It also sounded, in the books, like men have a like-it-or-lump-it relation to it.
This seemed to be Jordan’s attempt to shift power to the women in the Aiel’s polygyny. While I can buy the idea of a polygynous society where women had power and wealth (Heian Japan comes to mind), I see this one as being more the author trying to sell my on it being OK for the hero to have three lovers, which just doesn’t seem to be happening.
@68 We do know a bit about Aiel economics, specifically that men cannot own land/property. This is described when explaining the Roofmistress and how when a woman gets married if she does not have a roof of her own her family will build one for her. Kind of a dowry tradition mixed in with some traditions of the home being the woman’s domain (in the sense that the man is subservient in the home-life).
We also know a bit about agency and the relationship between sister wives. When Melaine decides she wishes to marry Bael, who is already married to Dorindha, she approaches Dorindha and not Bael. The first wife is the one who is in control of the marriage in this sense, and she’s the one who may bring in another into the marriage. This is not to say that Melaine and Dorindha are involved of course as it’s made pretty clear that Melaine very much only has eyes for Bael, especially early in her marriage to him.
The implication then is clear. Aiel women are clearly in a very strong and possibly even dominant position in terms of family and home (they’re also matrilineal, i.e. the mothers family line is more important than the fathers). When we couple it with earlier observations about a warrior culture with high death rates among men, I’d say it makes perfect sense. And I don’t think it really factors into Rand’s situation, as Rand having multiple wives has more to do with the pattern needing ways to bind him to multiple peoples (Elayne obviously since she helps legitimize the support of Andor and Cairhien and Aviendha since the Wise Ones desperately want him to feel part of their people so as to minimize the destruction he will bring them, which is realized when Aviendha asks him to give the Aiel a place in his peace and as such is implied to save the Aiel people from the future she sees. Min obviously is outside of this paradigm, which is why she often gets talked about as being his “true” love.)
It might not be what a lot of women readers would find appealing, but that’s hardly the point. The books have plenty of customs that as a man I would rather not live with because they directly constrain male freedom and choice. The third age is a bunch of peoples making due with what they can and trying to figure things out in an imperfect world. Be that living with the aftermath of the breaking as men or adapting to the gender imbalance in adulthood as Aiel women.